I very much welcome Jacknaim’s comments on this blog because it is rare that I get Muslims who are open to discussions about our faiths. Jacknaim has a blog ‘The Revolutionist‘ about his Muslim’s faith and I can relate to some of his views on his love for God Almighty.
Before I answer a few of Jacknaim’s questions, let me tell you a little about myself. Jacknaim, I went to an almost all Malays school when I was in primary school and continue to have Malay friends in secondary school. I speak loghat Penang like a Malay when I was younger, no one knows I am Chinese if they don’t see me. I see a lot of similarities in Islam and Christianity and I never question our differences because I believe God prefers His subjects to be diverse.
I do not subscribe to the some of the Christians’ views that no one gets to Heaven unless they embrace Jesus Christ. I prefer to stay on the sideline and not get sucked into that kind of thinking or arguments because it is not like we can proof it. To me, Heaven is on earth if we make the best of it, using our God guided words and teachings, i.e. be kind to people, help the helpless, do what we humanly can and leave the rest to God.
I also do not take offence when invidivuals who supposedly claim to represent Islam makes fun of my Lord Jesus Christ. For example, Menj and his constant ‘worshippers of the half-naked idol’ and stuffs like that. However, I do make my stand if this comes from politicians who try to put a blanket order on us because what they do, is like forcing it upon us.
1) The use of the term Allah
Peace Be Upon You. I dont think the word Allah is proper for the christian to call Jesus Christ. Because in our religion, Allah is above everything and cannot be compare as his creatures.
The above comment is from Jacknaim. I agree with you that we cannot use Allah to refer to Jesus Christ. We DID NOT call Jesus that. Jesus is Jesus. God, the creator is referred as God in our English version of the Bible. I have not seen a Bahasa Malaysia Bible so I cannot explain how the term Allah is used in that context.
But in our English Bible, the image of God has a 4,000 years old history. In those times, God is called Yahweh. God then sometimes appear like a pagan God with offerings of all kind of things like what was mentioned in the book of Numbers.
I just want to assure you that we do not refer to Jesus as Allah. It will take a Gospel to explain how the Holy Trinity.
2) Since when do we use Allah?
It has been used for centuries. The Herald has used it for years too. It is only recently, just before the election, the Home Ministry stopped the printing licence of the LIMITED circulation of The Herald. The Herald is for Catholics. Some parties are out to confuse Muslims that we only started to ‘claim’ this usage.
3) The Protestant and some confusions
Jacknaim, I being a Catholic is as confused by you with regards to the various Christian denominations. Some denominations (like a group) totally do not use the crucifix and they have no statues in their churches.
p/s : i’ve a question. did the trinity in the catholic is still the same as in protestant. some of my protestant friends say that the trinity in catholic refers to God the father, Jesus the Son and Virgin Mary..
So, I cannot tell you what is the Holy Trinity in Protestant faith because I don’t have friends who are Protestants to explain to me. But I can 100% assure you and some misled Protestants that the Holy Trinity is God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit (the spirit of Jesus whom had died and this same spirit dwells in all Catholic Christians).
The other huge misunderstanding is that we pray to Mary. No, we do not pray to anything/anyone other than the Holy Trinity. We do adore Mary but only as a matronly figure whom is compassionate to us. We ask Mary to pray for us, i.e. like asking a friend to help us to pray for us.
4) The image of Jesus
I understand that Muslims and Christians have different views on how we are born. All Muslims believe they are born sinless and will die sinless if they continue with professing their belief in God and following the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad.
Meanwhile, all Christians believe ALL humans are born sinful because of the sin committed by Adam and Eve. Therefore, we believe by embracing Jesus Christ as our Lord (note that it is Lord and not God), our sins will be washed away and we start on a clean slate.
Muslim love Jesus. they are not a true believer until they believe in Jesus. But of course our point of view about Jesus is different.Christian believes him as a son of god but us believe him as a prophet. just for sharing with you, God is begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
Anyway, we do share certain things and we are not enemy
However, despite of our differences in beliefs, if we just do what our Holy Book guides us, I guess we are on the right track.
In conclusion – Where the issue of the term Allah is concerned, our Catholic church shall leave it to the courts because we know there is no end if we continue to argue over it. During the case of Lina Joy, we all submitted to the Will of God and when she lost the case, we just accepted it. To us, it is not a war to see whose professed God is more powerful as we believe in the same God. Rather, we just stand up, voice out and pray for the best.
I hope you notice that Catholics, though vocal are not confrontational? We believe in handling everything peacefully, within the law and in everything, have dialogues. This is how Jesus’s disciples deal with themselves when they have any problems, eg. fighting for power and leadership. It is all depending on consensus.
Jacknaim – If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to mail it to me and I shall be glad to find my church elders to help you answer some of the misconceptions if I cannot answer them. I am glad that you have taken the step to ask questions. If our ruling leaders are as open as you, I believe we shall have a much better country.
Peace be upon you!
May 13th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Assalamu’alaikum (means peace be upon you in arabic language)
To my sister-people of the scripture
thank you for dedicating this post for me.. i do hope that we can have a peace discussion in order to enhance our understanding on both faith, Islam as well as Christianity. meaning that, no insulting but still it must be a open minded discussion. i do believe that this kind of discussion can help us understanding each other thus create a better way of life and inter-religion relationship in our country.
And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).”[29:046 ]
May 13th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
“the spirit of Jesus whom had died and this same spirit dwells in all Catholic Christians”
**from the viewpoint of protestant, holy spirit/ holy ghost refer to the angel Gabriel.
And for the case of Lina Joy. Yes, she is not a muslim anymore. she is free to dedicate her life to her new religion. the problems arise in the case of Lina Joy is not about her conversion but she challenges the court to erase the word ‘ISLAM’ in his id card. For this thing, it is not islamic court to be blame. it is the constitution before the independence or the British government who is to be blamed.i also disagree with this stuff becouse once the person renounce from islamic faith than he/she is no longer a muslim ‘Melayu’ according to the constitution refer to those who practice the culture of malay, islam. So since she is melayu, then the word Islam will automatically be printed on her ID card. to change this constitution, the majority of two thirds MP is needed to change it
May 14th, 2008 at 12:28 am
Peace to you, Jacknaim. You mentioned:
**from the viewpoint of protestant, holy spirit/ holy ghost refer to the angel Gabriel.
May I suggest that you approach a Protestant pastor or a Protestant who knows his faith deeply. I don’t think that is true of their faith.
Anyway, I am glad, too, that we have open discussions here.
May 14th, 2008 at 1:29 am
Jacknaim – Glad to share with whatever limited knowledge I have. As far as I know, Protestant churches are divided into many other denominations. So, I really wonder how Angel Gabriel appears in their Bible. I am interested to know. Can you give me the source? Frankly speaking, even Christians have doubts against Christians against other denominations, especially those from the American churches. But I think if people is level-headed like you, we can actually talk about our similarities and not arguing over who is right and who is wrong. After all, all faiths lead to kindness and love.
May 14th, 2008 at 3:07 am
My apologize if i make a mistake.to be honest i got confused too. i really get confuse. i speak with many christian friends and pastor but they give the different answer. Gabriel as a holy spririt is their answer. but i dont believe it too because there is verse in bible mentioning about holy ghost and gabriel as two different figure like in Luke 1:26-37..most of the pastor say this.
so the question now is, who is holy spirit? yes of course it is part of trinitarian concept right. jesus+father+holy spirit.. the question arouse now is how the holy spirit do his job?
May 14th, 2008 at 3:15 am
The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.[luke,1:35]
so how did the holy spirit do his function actually. i’m really sorry if i offend anybody (please tell me if i do so because i dont want to hurt any of your feelings). did he posses the baby in Virgin Mary’s tummy or he become the baby in her tummy. or he did it through possession. is there anybody who was possessed by holy spirit other than Jesus??
May 15th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Wah…can I join in ah? As someone from the Methodist Church
From what I know about the Christian faith and in a very general description, Jesus appointed Peter as the leader of the apostles (the initial 12 disciples). From then, his leadership (as the head) was passed down over the generations. This group of disciples till today are known as Roman Catholics / Catholics. Sometime later, there were some disputes on rituals and rules and hence, some leaders broke away from the rituals and rules. Some of these leaders (with those who agree with them) then form their own worship groups and are then known as Protestant churches (seemingly because they were protesting). The mainstream Protestant churches like Lutherans, Methodists, Anglicans and Presbyterians believe in the same faith as the Catholics and even profess the same Nicene creed and Apostles Creed. So, there is no difference really in what we believe. It’s just that we do some things differently eg. some baptise by immersion, some by sprinkling etc.
As far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, it is not a reincarnation or ghost in the usual sense of the word though it is also sometimes referred to as the Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit was sent by God the Father to dwell in the heart of the believers to guide them as Jesus has been brought back to the glory of God. The Holy Spirit guides and counsels the believers in their walk with God and also helps to intercede during prayer times. It reveals the spiritual gifts which God has given to the believers.
Most mainstream churches like those mentioned above do not place any of the Trinity as being above another. They are all equal and are one. Some churches, however, place undue emphasis on the Holy Spirit and claims that unless you have certain spiritual giftings eg. speaking in tongues, you have not received the Holy Spirit. That, is not something which the mainstream churches agree on.
May 15th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
As for the word Allah, Christians who worship God in Bahasa Malaysia / Indonesia use this word to describe God. And when Christians refer to their God as Allah, it means the God in the Trinity. Anyone who is in the fellowship of Christians or in the midst of a Christian worship or is learning Christianity would know that the Allah that is being referred to by these Christians is the God whom Christians worship.
May 19th, 2008 at 2:13 am
Hi Lilian,
I am a born again Christian. After reading your answer to Jacknaim I felt encouraged to drop you this mail. I am not here to criticise you but as a fellow believer I want to give you my understanding of Mary. I believed she was a wonderful women who God has chosen to bear and carry His son Jesus for the world. Apart from that I have not come across anywhere in the bible that say she must intercede for us in prayer. She is dead and we (believers of Jesus Christ) are not allowed to pray or intercede through dead people. This is similar to attending the medium, tarrot cards reading and many other sources of idolatry. Read the gospel of John and I’ll pray for your discernment, understanding and wisdom. As mentioned earlier I am not criticising you but feels proud and humble to read your answer to Jacknaim. Continue your good work. God bless.
May 19th, 2008 at 2:24 am
Hi Lilian,
Forgot to mention. The only intercede we have in prayers as believers in Jesus Christ is The Holy Spirit. The different here is Mary died and her spirit went to God but Jesus died and arose after 3 days and 3 nights. He rose back to life and the Holy spirit is the only source for an intercession of our prayers to God the Father. One more thing, the term saints in the bible are refers to the living believers in the whole wide world not as some people assumed that it’s refers to the dead followers of Jesus. In Jesus Mightyful name. Amen.
May 19th, 2008 at 2:32 am
Hi Jacknaim,
You put a big smile on my face. Your curiousity is awesome and you’re also very humble, seem far different from my most Muslim’s friends who are always agresively argumentative. Keep asking and questioning, please don’t be sorry for your wanting to understand. Whatever reason you’re asking all these question just keep it up. May the truth will land upon you because the truth will set you free.
Loads of love. God bless.
May 24th, 2008 at 1:15 am
Just curious.
May 25th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
I don’t mean to offend anyone, infact i have high respect for those who believe in God. I am a muslim and i’m very interested in comparative religion especially christianity. I know that you people believe in trinity, but I couldn’t find any explanation of trinity in the bible. Anyone care to share because I have problem understanding the concept when you actually believe in one god. Is this the true message of Jesus?
thanks…
May 26th, 2008 at 12:37 am
holly – I will take note of your question and when I have seek the guide from someone I trust, I shall elaborate on it, ok? Thanks a lot for asking. It is hard for me to tell it in a way that everyone can understand, so I need to ask someone to help me with this.
May 31st, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Assalamu’alaikum. i totally agree with Holy. i also couldnt find any trinitarian concept in Holy Bible. The argument that has had been posted before is also not making any sense. i mean the H20 concept. the god exist in three state, ice, water and vapor
June 2nd, 2008 at 5:07 pm
jacknaim – I hope your exam went well. I have noted this and will try to share when I get a breather. Thanks!
June 11th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
hello friends…
I accidentally opened your blog and it’s good to have a discussion like this. In New Zealand, there are many such discussions which are called interfaith discussion if I’m not mistaken.
I would like to share something. http://www.watchislam.com/videos/video.php?vid=3
September 10th, 2008 at 12:59 am
Assala’mualaikum..
I just got copy of catholic bible.. my question is, why the arrangement of the books inside it is so much different with protestant bible. and also the numbers of books also different. so which one is true?
my second question is.. i get an info which saying that Gospel according to Mark, Matthew, Luke and John are not the earlier revelation in NT as it is written 200 years after year of Jesus christ. it’s also being mention that the epistles of Paul are the first teaching of NT. what is your opinion
September 11th, 2008 at 12:05 am
Jacknaim – My answers are rather long so I have posted it here.
http://www.christian-journey.c.....aim-again/