Replying to the comments from a Muslim
by lilian ~ May 17th, 2008
I have a few comments which I am going to try to give my views as an individual. It is strictly based on my limited knowledge but it is not done in haste nor without thoughts.
Lilian, Allah itu Satu, tiada dua atau tiga…hanya Allah yang berhak disembah, bukan Jesus Al-Masih [Isa Al-Masih] atau Mary [Mariam], kata Faizan, kalau Kristian hendak gunakan nama Allah dalam upacara keagamaan, kenapa tidak memeluk Agama Islam? memang tepat pandangan yang Faizan beri,…tapi macam mana dengan Kristian? Ianya satu perubahan yang agak drastik dan mungkin mendatangkan kacau bilau apabila penganut Kristian yang taksub membuat bantahan. Hanya Allah sahaja yang Maha Mengetahui segala sesuatu kejadian itu.
Saudara,
Saya memang setuju Tuhan itu hanya Satu.
Orang Katolik Kristian TIDAK menyembah Mariam. Kami cuma menghormati beliau, seperti mana kita menyanyangi ibu kita.
Tuhan mencipta kita dengan pemikiran bebas (free will). Itu lah punca Adam dan Hawa mengambil buah larangan dan justeru itu, membiarkan api neraka membakar.
Dan mengikut kepercayaan penganut Kristus, Yesus adalah Anak Tunggal yang dilahirkan oleh Maria.
“Hai Yusuf, keturunan Daud! Janganlah takut peristeri Maria. Dia mengandung kerana kuasa Roh Allah. Maria akan melahirkan seorang anak lelaki. Anak itu akan dinamakan Imanuel.” (Matius 1:20-21, Alkitab) (Emmanuel = Jesus)
Saudara,
Ini adalah asas kepercayaan orang Kristian dan ini adalah muktamad untuk kami semua.
Agama Islam adalah agama yang telah sempurna yang kedatangannya selepas agama yang dibawa oleh Nabi Isa [yang sekarang dikenali dengan nama AGAMA KRISTIAN]. Nabi Isa adalah perantara antara umat manusia dengan Tuhan. Allah memberikan mukjizat yang hebat kepada Nabi Isa seperti mampu bercakap walaupun masih di dalam buaian, menyembuhkan orang buta dan mencipta burung dari tanah. Penggunaan nama Allah bukan baru sahaja digunakan di dalam agama Kristian, bahkan ianya memang digunakan dari awal kedatangan agama Kristian. Kitab yang menjadi rujukan para Mubaligh Kristian juga adalah Al-Quran. Tetapi ianya hanya untuk para Mubaligh Kristian. Bible yang tersebar secara meluas sekarang ini hanyalah kitab yang dipenuhi dengan pendapat ulama Kristian [Father]. Bible sekarang ini tidak boleh diakui kesahihannya lagi kerana ianya telah diubahsuai mengikut kesesuaian hidup pengamal Kristian. Dari situ terbentuk OLD TESTAMENT dan NEW TESTAMENT. Banyak percanggahan pendapat di antara kedua-dua kitab tersebut. Dan yang pasti, HANYA ALLAH YANG BERHAK DISEMBAH, TIADA TUHAN ANAK ATAU TUHAN BAPAK ATAU TUHAN IBU. Mariam mengandungkan Isa adalah dengan kehendak Allah. Nabi Isa [Jesus] yang penganut Kristian percaya telah wafat sebenarnya telah diangkat ke langit oleh Allah. Ini adalah kerana permintaan Nabi Isa sendiri untuk menjadi umat akhir zaman dan suatu hari nanti pasti Nabi Isa akan turun ke bumi semula untuk membetulkan keadaan. Dan ketika itu, semua salib [crucify] dan gereja akan dimusnahkan. Tunggu sahaja kedatangan hari yang dinantikan itu. Isu tentang Kristian di Malaysia hendak menggunakan nama Allah memang tidak sepatutnya timbul kerana ianya memang sudah digunakan. Jadi, carilah kebenaran selagi boleh. Carilah salinan Injil Barnaba’ yang satu masa dahulu telah dihapuskan oleh Paulus. Paulus, seorang yahudi yang telah berjaya memesongkan kitab Injil dan keseluruhan penganut Kristian sekarang ini.
Saudara
Sekali lagi saudara membangkitkan ‘Tuhan Ibu’. Dan sekali lagi, saya ingin memperbetulkan bahawa orang Katolik Kristian hanya menyembah Tuhan yang Satu, walaupun kami menyembahNya dalam bentuk Holy Trinity. Saya tidak menafikan bahawa di dunia ini, memang ada macam-macam pengajaran yang terpesong. Walau bagaimanapun, itu merupakan kehendakan pengikut-pengikut mereka dan bukan untuk kami perbetulkan kerana seperti yang kami fahami, Tuhan memberikan kita kehendak yang bebas dan adalah terpulang kepada kehendak Tuhan samada ajaran itu menggalakan pengikut-pengikut itu berbuat pahala atau sebaliknya.
Bible sekarang ini tidak boleh diakui kesahihannya lagi kerana ianya telah diubahsuai mengikut kesesuaian hidup pengamal Kristian.
Izinkan saya beri petikan dari Revelation atau Wahyu. Ini adalah perenggan terakhir.
.....post continues after advertisement
“I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book : If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city which are described in this book.” (Revelation 22:18-19)
Jadi, bagi kami penganut Kristian, apa yang tertulis di dalam Kitab Suci kami adalah firman dari Tuhan. Memang ada sedikit perbezaan tetapi, apa yang penting adalah kepercayaan kami mengikut Nicene Creed. Intepretasi Kitab Injil bukan sekadar membaca ayat-ayat yang ada di dalam tetapi mengikut pemikiran kita (wisdom and discernment) yang dikurnia Tuhan.
Kebetulan pagi ini saya telah diberikan peringatan dari surat Yakobus (Letter of St. James):
Lidah itu jahat dan tidak dapat dikuasai, serta penuh dengan racun yang mematikan. Kita menggunakan lidah untuk mengucapkan syukur kepada Tuhan dan Bapa kita, tetapi juga untuk mengutuk sesama manusia, yand sudah diciptakan menurut rupa Allah.
Jadi saya berharap segala penjelasan saya kepada saudara telah diberikan dengan penuh rasa hormat terhadap kepercayaan saudara mengikut agama Islam. Saya juga sangat berharap, saudara dapat menghormati pendapat saya. Walaupun, kita tidak bersetuju, tetapi biarlah kita bersyukur kita dapat hidup dengan aman.
Samada The Herald akan memenangi kes mahkamah untuk terus mencetak majalah The Herald dengan terma ‘Allah’ adalah terpulang kepada keputusan hakim. Tetapi yang tidak berubah, penganut Kristian terus mempercayaai kepada Tuhan, Yesus dan Roh Kudus.
Selama ini, memang terma Allah digunakan di dalam Alkitab Bahasa Melayu dan sebab ia tidak begitu menonjol mata adalah kerana orang Kristian lebih mengutamakan kedamaain dan kami memang tidak mengguna terma Allah dengan luas. The Herald adalah untuk orang Katolik sahaja. Isu Allah ini timbul apabila ahli politik-ahli politik memperalatkan isu ini untuk niat-niat yang tertentu.
Thanks for commenting and though what you have mentioned are not entirely agreeable to me, I do not feel there is anything to be concern because we can live peacefully, like God intended. Please know that I will always refer to my priest (paderi) if I really do not know how to respond. Whatever is written above is purely based on my own understanding of my Catholic faith and I hope I have not cause any ill feelings to you or anyone who reads this.
Peace be with you.
- Of money, food and God I have blogs on the above issues like money, food and God. And maybe I can lump my personal
- Thank you - Ray Boltz Ray Boltz has several beautiful Christian songs. This is one of his song - Thank you. There are
- Muslim converted by pope All I can say to this piece of news is 'Oh dear...' In a surprise move on Saturday night, the pope
- The origins of the word ‘Allah’ (by Farish Noor) The below is an article by Farish A. Noor. I have asked my church elders to provide me (the
- An answer for a born again Christian Hi Lilian, I am a born again Christian. After reading your answer to Jacknaim I felt encouraged to drop you this
- Answering Jacknaim’s questions I very much welcome Jacknaim's comments on this blog because it is rare that I get Muslims who are open
- Christian Bible in Bahasa Melayu NOTE : Before I proceed, let me put another reminder that this is a personal blog of a Catholic
May 17th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Peace be with them all. GOD bless.
May 17th, 2008 at 11:09 am
terence - Wuah…you read also hor? So not wasted lah, my brain cells.
May 17th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
I know you mean well, but dont need to explain to them. Waste time only.
May 17th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
orang cina - No lah, it is only right to explain than making others misunderstand. Even Christians misunderstand too so I don’t blame our Muslim brothers and sisters getting confused as well.
May 17th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Good written piece, Aunty Lilian. However hard we try to explain, certain factions will try their best to counter them. You know, it’s the traditions of the Abrahamic faiths that insist on each of them is the “Only true path to God and salvation”. We should be blessed that we are still living in peace here, unlike areas overrun by fundamentalists who call for destruction and annihilation on those who do not submit to their interpretation of religious laws.
May 18th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
“Orang Katolik Kristian TIDAK menyembah Mariam. Kami cuma menghormati beliau, seperti mana kita menyanyangi ibu kita.”
Coming from a Catholic, this is a rather surprising statement. After all, we know that Mary is considered Theotokos, “Mother of God” and Catholics DO bow down before statues of Mary. You know that very well, so if this is not considered “worship”, than what is? Here is evidence:
http://www.hiphopclique.com/image/images/730978popeprayertomary.jpg
If this statement were coming from a Protestant, I wouldn’t be so surprised….but from a Catholic?? I glanced briefly through your post and your major objection is to the glorification of Mary, peace be upon her. Why deny something which is an official Catholic practice?
- MENJ
May 18th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Menj - If we walk past an elderly person, didn’t we also bow our head? That’s the kind of respect I am talking about. When we give respect to the King, do we say we are praying to him? No, right?
I am not denying. I am correcting the misconception that probably stems from the older Catholics. Yes, many old folks are very faithful to Mary and they do appear like they are praying to her. But, in their prayers, they ask, “O Mary, please pray for us” and not, Mary, I pray to you. It is different, you see? Let’s see what our Rosary prayers say :
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death
I also don’t deny that sometimes, some Catholics can go overboard with the pomp and pageantry so it does send the wrong kind of message to even other Christians.
I am not denying Mary and her unfailing help when we call on her. But I have said it in previous post, I just don’t connect that well with the image of Mary at this stage in my life.
May 18th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
“If we walk past an elderly person, didn’t we also bow our head?”
Of course, but we don’t call that person a “Father” or “Mother” of GOD.
“But, in their prayers, they ask, “O Mary, please pray for us””
In Islam, this is called intercession and it is pretty much the same thing as worship. No distinction is made between the two.
My intention is not to disparage your faith but to make it clear as to what the Qur’an is referring to when it criticises the worship of Mary and Jesus, peace and blessings of God be upon them. As you may note, I too deeply revere Mary (peace be upon her!) and I have given her (P) a honorific as it is a Muslim custom each time I say Mary’s (P) name. However that is not equivalent to bowing before her statue, or calling her “Theotokos”, “Mother of God”. That is clearly worship and a distinction has to be made between a veneration of respect and outright worship.
- MENJ
May 19th, 2008 at 1:50 am
Dear Lilian, it is hard to explain to a non Catholic Christians about our Catholic faith. Only we know and we know it that we don’t worship Mary but we love her so much as the mother of our Lord Jesus who is also our God. (Perhaps, we revere her as much as the Muslims revere Mohammad?). We have no problem in calling her the Mother of God. God in this case is Jesus and not Father God Almighty (Allah).
Incidentally, we might as well mention that we got our Hail Mary prayers from the following scripture verse:-
LUKE 1:….
41
When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit,
42
cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.
43
And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord 14 should come to me?
*****
As for statues, they are for visual aids and not for worshipping.
God bless you and yours.
May 19th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
P.s.
We love Mary as much as Jesus loves her. One of God’s commandments is “love your father and mother”. How we express that love is up to us. Like how it is expressed in
http://www.hiphopclique.com/image/images/730978popeprayertomary.jpg
as kindly shown to us by our friend Menj. (Peace to you Menj).
Incidentally, we love the mother of Jesus because when Jesus breathed His last, He gave His DYING WISH as in the gospel of John 19:25-27
25
10 Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala.
26
When Jesus saw his mother 11 and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.”
27
Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.
In other words, Jesus asked us to take His mother, too, as how He commanded the disciple. For us Catholics, we take His dying wish VERY SERIOUSLY in obedience to His dying wish.
May 19th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
So, I wish those OUTSIDERS (some of our protestant friends included) who try to interpret our Catholic faith would look at our faith the way we see it and not as they perceive it to be.
You know, Lilian, some Catholics who don’t know our faith well (I don’t claim to know all though) are easily influenced by how others interpret our faith. Instead of giving themselves a chance to learn more about it…..THE TRUTH… they make a decision to leave the church and become the most anti Catholic ever.
But what pricks me most is when OUTSIDERS think they know our Catholic faith so well.
God bless.
June 24th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
I would like to add in a few comments on the following :
1. There is simply no truth in saying that our Bible is corrupted. Those people who are saying so are those who simply believe what their parents,teachers,ancestors,religious teachers,holy book; which have been told to them from generations to generations as if it has been implanted in their brains so that they would not even bother to hear and seek for the truth in the Bible. Does it make sense that God does not protect His words (Torah/Bible) twice? And that He had to sent mankind another book to replace the Bible? What kind of God is this? So all God’s teachings via all his prophets that He had sent goes down to the rubbish bin simply because it is corrupted? If this God can allowed all his teachings (Torah/Bible) to be corrupted, what assurance do I have that His so called “last book” will not be corrupted as well? My God is not a flawed god who will allowed His Books to be corrupted…what about your god?
June 24th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
About the Trinity-3 persons in one God
Many find it difficult to accept this doctrine. Those who are saying that God cannot be like this are actually limiting the power of God. They will go on and on saying that “Tuhan tidak diperanakkan, Tuhan tidak ada bapa,etc”.
Just picture a tree with 3 branches, these branches still belong to the one same tree…got the picture?
If that tree can do this, what more to say God. How dare you say what God can or cannot do; God can be anything he wishes to be. Our little mind is too limited to understand God’s mysteries and nature.
So, if you believe that God can do anything and His power has no limits, then what is so hard about believing in the Trinity concept. If you are still saying God cannot/unable to do this just because your holy book say so, then I rest my case. It all boils down to the books you believe in.See my comment on the Bible.
June 25th, 2008 at 2:53 am
Dear Amen,
You said, God can be anything He wishes to be?
Well,the real God whose name is Allah S.W.T no need to be come one of his creaters, you know why ? its a weekness.My God and also the God of Yesus is the powerfull God, that you dont have any clue about Him.
So please dont you sell any lies to others that make you closer to the age of the darkness of the hell.
Use your mind if you talk about God or else talk about something else you know about.
Thanks.
June 25th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Dani - I understand that you may not agree with what Amen said and it is fine for us to disagree. However, I need to point out that in our Christian views, making Himself to be a Man is not a sign of weakness but rather, strength, love and hope because getting tortured and died that way is not the work of a weak person. So, in our Christian way of looking at things, it is a very brave Person who comes to earth to be with us so that He can bring us back (salvation) to Heaven with Him. Of course, I am not asking you to believe what I believe in but I just want to point out that it is not weakness but love for us, God’s creations.
June 28th, 2008 at 12:17 am
Dani-my point is that God can do anything or be anything he wishes to be because He is all powerful and Almighty. I would not even dare to judge God by saying that it is a sign of weakness or question Him. I NEVER said that I know everything about God as I myself said that our human mind is too limited to know about God’s nature and mysteries.
It is you that is making a Judgement against God by making a statement that such action is a sign of weakness.
I rest my case and will not comment further.
June 29th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
shalom, first of all , apology for any misquotes, what u believes is your right, as i have faith ( iman ) to nabi isa alaihissalam, he (pbuh) still a human like us. eat drink, walk everything,,, he has a mission to the israel people . ALLAH chose him as the rest of prophets b4 him. he is not the son of god…. A COMMON sense. if GOD has son … then god has brother , sister , cousin , uncle….. and bla bla… n what generation god or gods belong. issue GOD or terms u use has no resemblance with human. i hope its not hurt you or who ever …. is just to clarify, ISA is aprophet , peace be upon him
June 29th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
dear amen,
shalom, salam, salamun alaikum…..
i agree, we human have little knowledge. but we are asked to seek for truth. knowledge is everything and is how u make use knowledge for good things n good deed. certain knowledge we can explore but certain knowledge is beyond our intellectual to explore but does not means we cant find the answer… but to answer a divine question like a tree with a three branches to a god as example, is not an answer at all. we always want to potray anything according to our nature as human u c u believe. or u hear u believe. God gives us senses to differenciates things as we human lives in a phisical form
n yet god gives another senses what they call it six sense to comm w god… what the heart says n balanced with mind intellectual… ( ILHAM ) god pass thru us . the holy book QURAN, INJIL, TAURAT, ZABUR as guideline to mankind. we dont need intermediaries to communicate to god, we dont need third party or broker, statue or picture as medium to god to seek forgiveness. we pray direct to god any where any place…god is there. to say another human as god is unfair to the said human….if he knows that man idolatory him as god. and so called god-like human …. i wonder what will he said.. no body wants to be pray as god, to respect as an individu yes. dear readers, fellow christian bro n sis… its an opinion… whatever u belives is yours… i respect for what u believes. i dont asked u to agree with what i m saying here. is just sharing opinion. what ever i know ISA is a prophet… and ISA is not JESUS. if some of u wants to know more about ISA as prophet find it. may ALLAH foregives us all.
ALLAH neither need no son nor holy spirit . . .
June 30th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Just to share a bit here,
Aunt Lilian, we’ve known Isa as the Islamic term for Jesus, and we automatically assume it to be the term for Jesus in Arabic (apparently, Arabic is the Qur’anic language). But I just found out that in the Middle East, the Arabic-speaking Christians do not call Jesus as Isa, but rather Yasu (????), the divinely Jesus than the Muslim prophetic Jesus.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
kyh - tralalalala…I see nothing, hear nothing and say nothing ‘cos what I wanted to say, were said in my post. The rest hor, gua tak tau, tak mau tak and tak ingin tau. Hahaha…cos it will never end wan but thanks a lot for pointing out.